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Requests to join group or channel
Quiet Boar, Nov 23, 2020 at 20:47, edited
FixedSuggestionGeneral

If enabled, the user attempting to join the group/channel will only be able to view the content and send things after being accepted by an administrator (optional: only admins who have the "accept/decline request" permission).

The option to open the request list will be found in the "Permissions" options.

Use cases: some people would like their groups/channels to be public and have a username but not allow everyone to join.
And make private ones safer when it comes to leaked invite links.

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ꃔᵒᵉˡ ⵜ𝍬 𓂆 Nov 6, 2021
Emilia
The spam problem is not related to this. Of course, it needs to be addressed, but it should not be solved by manual intervention as with admin approval as it becomes impossible especially for the channel (tens of millions of users in the future). For example, telegram could provide an option to enable CAPTCHA or similar tests to admit a user. Such feature is already provided by several bots.
I agree with you. The Captcha is necessary.
Constantin Eckstein Nov 6, 2021
Emilia
The spam problem is not related to this. Of course, it needs to be addressed, but it should not be solved by manual intervention as with admin approval as it becomes impossible especially for the channel (tens of millions of users in the future). For example, telegram could provide an option to enable CAPTCHA or similar tests to admit a user. Such feature is already provided by several bots.
I own a local public group (it can be found at groups nearby).
Some people that are not members of the group, look at the groups member list and send spam to all female members of the group...

With the effect that female groupmembers have to remove their profile picture and female username if they don't want to get spam (and dickpics).

That's why it should be possible to hide the members and messages for non-members.
People should have to join first to read - that allows the admins to block them from the group when they get notified of spam by other members.

Right even if I know which users send dickpics to female members, I can not block them from seeing the group (because they are not members).
Rear-Tiger 🐅 Nov 6, 2021
ꃔᵒᵉˡ ⵜ𝍬 𓂆
I agree with you. The Captcha is necessary.
Captchas keep out only real user bots, but not real users with dick pic or nazi avatars or bot-hybrids.

So captchas only solve a part of the problem and they offer no security: sometimes a bot solves a captcha, sometimes a user fails to solve it.
And in near future there won't be any captchas left, that an AI can't solve.

Why setting up even a 2nd straw man now?
Emilia Nov 6, 2021
Constantin Eckstein
I own a local public group (it can be found at groups nearby). Some people that are not members of the group, look at the groups member list and send spam to all female members of the group... With the effect that female groupmembers have to remove their profile picture and female username if they don't want to get spam (and dickpics). That's why it should be possible to hide the members and messages for non-members. People should have to join first to read - that allows the admins to block them from the group when they get notified of spam by other members. Right even if I know which users send dickpics to female members, I can not block them from seeing the group (because they are not members).
I understand the problem, but the point is still the same. If a content is public then it is visible otherwise it must be private.
If members who are being harassed by some random users report them, the problem is already solved.
Emilia Nov 6, 2021
Rear-Tiger 🐅
Captchas keep out only real user bots, but not real users with dick pic or nazi avatars or bot-hybrids. So captchas only solve a part of the problem and they offer no security: sometimes a bot solves a captcha, sometimes a user fails to solve it. And in near future there won't be any captchas left, that an AI can't solve. Why setting up even a 2nd straw man now?
If your answer is to filter out spammers, you should open a new discussion about possible countermeasures.
CAPTCHAs are not perfect, but they are the only automated way to counter spam in real scenario with millions of users.
Moreover, telegram already offers a way to report spammers.

P.S. are you saying that "AI" will solve the Turing's test?
Rear-Tiger 🐅 Nov 6, 2021
Emilia
If your answer is to filter out spammers, you should open a new discussion about possible countermeasures. CAPTCHAs are not perfect, but they are the only automated way to counter spam in real scenario with millions of users. Moreover, telegram already offers a way to report spammers. P.S. are you saying that "AI" will solve the Turing's test?
Reminder:
The use cases of this feature request are defined as follows:

"...some people would like their groups/channels to be public and have a username but not allow everyone to join.
And make private ones safer when it comes to leaked invite links."

So this feature request is about enabling admins to *handle join requests* to join a channel or group - *independent* if they are "public" or "private". Period.

You constantly try to shift the coordinate system by setting red herring or straw men arguments (defining feature request as done, although public groups are still missing, sophistry discussion about the definition of "public", introducing captchas and now captchas being treated as Turing test).

Btw: I never said, that an AI will solve the Turing test. I said an AI will be able to solve captchas.
A captcha is not a Turing test. By definition, the interrogator in a Turing test is a human being, not an algorithm. Captchas also don't claim to be equal to a Turing test.

Members of this thread are not your guinea pigs for testing and improving your rhetorical skills. So pack away your dark triade experiments or find another trolling platform for your games.
inquisitive Nov 7, 2021
Rear-Tiger 🐅
Reminder: The use cases of this feature request are defined as follows: "...some people would like their groups/channels to be public and have a username but not allow everyone to join. And make private ones safer when it comes to leaked invite links." So this feature request is about enabling admins to *handle join requests* to join a channel or group - *independent* if they are "public" or "private". Period. You constantly try to shift the coordinate system by setting red herring or straw men arguments (defining feature request as done, although public groups are still missing, sophistry discussion about the definition of "public", introducing captchas and now captchas being treated as Turing test). Btw: I never said, that an AI will solve the Turing test. I said an AI will be able to solve captchas. A captcha is not a Turing test. By definition, the interrogator in a Turing test is a human being, not an algorithm. Captchas also don't claim to be equal to a Turing test. Members of this thread are not your guinea pigs for testing and improving your rhetorical skills. So pack away your dark triade experiments or find another trolling platform for your games.
👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼 👍
Emilia Nov 7, 2021
Rear-Tiger 🐅
Reminder: The use cases of this feature request are defined as follows: "...some people would like their groups/channels to be public and have a username but not allow everyone to join. And make private ones safer when it comes to leaked invite links." So this feature request is about enabling admins to *handle join requests* to join a channel or group - *independent* if they are "public" or "private". Period. You constantly try to shift the coordinate system by setting red herring or straw men arguments (defining feature request as done, although public groups are still missing, sophistry discussion about the definition of "public", introducing captchas and now captchas being treated as Turing test). Btw: I never said, that an AI will solve the Turing test. I said an AI will be able to solve captchas. A captcha is not a Turing test. By definition, the interrogator in a Turing test is a human being, not an algorithm. Captchas also don't claim to be equal to a Turing test. Members of this thread are not your guinea pigs for testing and improving your rhetorical skills. So pack away your dark triade experiments or find another trolling platform for your games.
You still don't understand the difference between what is public or not. If something is public, it doesn't need any moderation to be seen by definition. In fact, the latest telegram update added this feature to private content since public contents are visible to everyone.

Please reread the discussion, I didn't start the confusion about read and write rights on a content. I agree that moderation is required on a discussion (public or private), but it is a different topic.

You probably don't know this, but Completely Automated Public Turing test to tell Computers and Humans Apart (CAPTCHAs) are actually a Turing's test (sometimes considered a reverse test) .
Read more here https://wikipedia.org/wiki/CAPTCHA

P.S. "It is better to be silent at the risk of being thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt."
Rear-Tiger 🐅 Nov 7, 2021
Emilia
You still don't understand the difference between what is public or not. If something is public, it doesn't need any moderation to be seen by definition. In fact, the latest telegram update added this feature to private content since public contents are visible to everyone. Please reread the discussion, I didn't start the confusion about read and write rights on a content. I agree that moderation is required on a discussion (public or private), but it is a different topic. You probably don't know this, but Completely Automated Public Turing test to tell Computers and Humans Apart (CAPTCHAs) are actually a Turing's test (sometimes considered a reverse test) . Read more here https://wikipedia.org/wiki/CAPTCHA P.S. "It is better to be silent at the risk of being thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt."
Ok, then Captchas claim to be a Turning test, although they are not.

It's the same with Telegram groups having a "user name".
As they are labelled as "public", you come to the conclusion, that they "claim" to be "Emilia public".

But read the subtitles:

( ) public
everybody can ***FIND*** it by searching

( ) private
can only be ***found*** by an invitation link

(retranslated from german language, so the original text might be slightly different)

(btw. think about geo located groups. They can also be "public" and "private", but as they can be found by the "near by" function, they never are really private. So this could be another playground for you ;-)

Your dogmatic definition of public is simply not relevant here. The requested feature is relevant and useful. It has 529 up votes and only 20 down votes.
Nobody cares if it meets your dogmatic public definition or not.

Btw.: Funny that in the Captcha discussion, you are just telling us the opposite: A Captcha is a Turing test, because somebody included the phrase "Turing test" in it's name, although it fails Turings definition.

I will stop any discussion on definition of public and captchas, because they are offtopic and I am tired of this. I just will ignore any further discussion.

Let's concentrate on the feature request.
Emilia Nov 8, 2021
Rear-Tiger 🐅
Ok, then Captchas claim to be a Turning test, although they are not. It's the same with Telegram groups having a "user name". As they are labelled as "public", you come to the conclusion, that they "claim" to be "Emilia public". But read the subtitles: ( ) public everybody can ***FIND*** it by searching ( ) private can only be ***found*** by an invitation link (retranslated from german language, so the original text might be slightly different) (btw. think about geo located groups. They can also be "public" and "private", but as they can be found by the "near by" function, they never are really private. So this could be another playground for you ;-) Your dogmatic definition of public is simply not relevant here. The requested feature is relevant and useful. It has 529 up votes and only 20 down votes. Nobody cares if it meets your dogmatic public definition or not. Btw.: Funny that in the Captcha discussion, you are just telling us the opposite: A Captcha is a Turing test, because somebody included the phrase "Turing test" in it's name, although it fails Turings definition. I will stop any discussion on definition of public and captchas, because they are offtopic and I am tired of this. I just will ignore any further discussion. Let's concentrate on the feature request.
As I wrote before, but it seems that you do not read or understand the message, CAPTCHAs are Turing's test and sometimes are called reverse Turing's test.
Please read the original papers from which CAPTCHA definition comes from http://www.captcha.net/captcha_cacm.pdf and https://link.springer.com/content/pdf/10.1007/3-540-39200-9_18.pdf

According to telegram FAQ https://telegram.org/faq
Public groups
Get a short link for your group and make it public, like t.me/publictestgroup. This way, anybody can view the group's entire chat history and join to post messages.
Username
You can set up a public username on Telegram. It then becomes possible for other users to find you by that username — you will appear in contacts search under 'global results'.

Local group are public by default
People Nearby is an optional feature that allows Telegram users to explore local groups, find friends to chat with in their area, or quickly exchange contacts with people who are close.
Note: People Nearby is never turned on by default – users must manually enable it. If you are receiving messages from someone you don't know, see Q: Who can contact me?

Now you can answer your own questions.

Can you report here what is the difference between something that is public and something that is private?
My definition agree with the definition of telegram FAQ and the choice made by telegram with the latest upgrade.

Please note:
"Wrong does not cease to be wrong because the majority share in it." Lev Tolstoy
Daniel Nov 8, 2021
Africa based scammers' attacks multiple "nearby chats" simultaneously.
Pre-approval by an admin would stop that
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